The Therapy Alchemist
Change is not just about the science and research. Mental health isn't just what we characterize as a disorder or not. It's also about the mystical ways in which we change and grow. Science can't study everything about our inner spirit/soul.
On this podcast, a Licensed Professional Counselor in Colorado dives into the spaces that science cannot go. Discussing what ACTUAL growth and change look like. Filling in the gaps that the pop-psychology world misses, completely ignores, or sometimes shames. Plus some tips and tricks along the way to help you achieve your own personal legend.
The Therapy Alchemist
#22: A Therapy Client’s Tale: Charles’ Triumph Over Addiction
On today’s episode, I talk with my client “Charles”, a 50-year-old who has been sober for nearly five years after a two-decade battle with alcoholism. Charles opens up about the pressures of running a company and the toll it took on his mental health, leading to severe anxiety, depression, and suicidal thoughts. He shares how therapy, mindfulness, and Buddhist teachings helped him transform his life perspective, build emotional intelligence, and form meaningful relationships. Charles reveals the challenges of confronting past shame, the importance of reaching out for help, and the continuous process of self-discovery and growth.
00:00 Introduction to the Therapy Alchemist Podcast
00:40 Charles' Journey: From Alcoholism to Sobriety
02:26 The Breaking Point and Seeking Therapy
05:18 First Therapy Sessions: Overcoming Stigma
07:39 The Turning Point: Embracing Mindfulness
11:33 The Power of Being Present
22:17 The Concept of 'Loved One' and Self-Love
28:05 The Therapeutic Relationship and Overcoming Shame
33:37 Reflections on Sobriety and Shame
34:17 Embracing the Past and Living in the Present
35:50 The Turning Point: A Look of Disappointment
36:25 The Role of Shame in Personal Growth
37:50 Learning from the Past to Shape the Future
38:55 The Importance of Honest Interactions
39:50 Self-Discovery and Independence
41:01 Building Meaningful Connections
42:25 The Journey of Emotional Intelligence
58:10 Redefining Traditional Roles
01:01:41 The Secret to a Good Life
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*This is not a substitute for therapy nor is it therapeutic advice. If you would like to find a therapist in your area check out psychologytoday.com, goodtherapy.org, or therapyden.com
Welcome back to another episode of the therapy alchemist on today's episode. I interview a client of mine who has been a client for several years. He goes by the name Charles as a pseudonym for this interview. I wanted to highlight for you guys what growth can look like in therapy. And Charles's story is so incredibly inspirational. I have watched him go from a place of chaos and feeling lost to a place of true connection with himself and those around him. I think that Charles's story is going to really inspire you and help you see how therapy can be beneficial and also the healing power that we all have within ourselves. Charles's story is one of true growth and showing that you can change over time, that you can overcome really hard things, including addiction. This story is so inspirational and I'm so grateful to Charles for allowing me to share this with you all. Welcome to the Therapy Alchemist podcast. I'm your host, Katrina Austin, a licensed therapist. I'm here to talk not only about the science behind mental health, but the magical process of transformation.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:Tell me a little bit about your backstory and what brought you to see me for the first time for therapy.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:My name is Charles. I'm 50 years old. Been an alcoholic for about 20 years sober for almost five now. Yeah life's been a crazy, crazy story. I run my own company And I built a company from scratch over the last 12 years. And now the company is successful and I've got to, you know, thank God that I'm in this position, but therapy for me going through the struggles of addiction is amazing, You don't understand how much it actually changes your mindset and staying to yourself that. You're not worthy, You're depressive. You're alone, even in a group of people. Going through that alcoholism for me was the norm, right? You get used to it. It's like, well, come home, kiss the wife and kids, go downstairs and hammer down a 12 pack of beer just to get through the night, And then start up again the next morning at 10 o'clock or even earlier some days, depending on your mood, right? There's a ton of pressure out there, in the society and also in my own business, To be that person for everyone all the time. And. That was too much for me at the time to, to even bear that the worry and exponential pressure to say, it's all me, I'm the one that has to run the company. I'm the one that has to fix the rights, fix the wrongs. I think in a lot of ways I'm really good at that, but mentally I wasn't in the right headspace because of my drinking and my alcoholism to say. Is this the best thing for me even in my company or my personal life, So we get into those routines that are unhealthy for us. Let's be honest and then We say hey Eventually you hit your breaking point. Everybody, you know says every basement has a bottom I was one of the fortunate ones that I didn't lose at all I was there enough, I guess, to still proceed in my company to grow it to the company that it is, but did it through all being pretty much hammer drunk most of the time which is scary to think about that now in retrospect, but through that whole process It finally got to where I had a breaking point, I was sober for about a year and just couldn't handle the stress, the pressures, the everything in between my own ears, And I can remember sitting at my office desk and just, you know, just getting all of it, All at once anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts, all of that of, I don't know where else to turn. And at that time, my ex wife said, you need help. You need to go to therapy. And it was definitely one of those calls that I didn't want to make as a man. There's a social stigma on saying I need help and I have no idea what to do. with anything in between my own ears, the internal self loathing, The internal pity party that I had in my head was so unbearable that I reached out for, which became one of the most beautiful things that I've done in my whole life is to reach out for help and say, I don't have this, And the one other thing of gratitude that I've got to acknowledge now is. I made that random call to a random therapy place, and I was connected with you, Katrina. And
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:Mm hmm.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:that for sure has been a big turning point in where I'm at with my process, My alcoholism, my sobriety, and everything in my life, And if I look back on that and say, it could have been any other therapist, but it was you, Katrina. I've got to show a lot of gratitude for that, The world works in mysterious ways. There's something out there that now I've been able to really track down and say, yeah, there's something out there for me. That's putting me into these places. That's putting these people in front of me at the time that either they need or I do.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:Yeah. I remember Because we're gonna get to the pivotal moment for you. But I totally agree, I think that you were also brought into my life for specific reasons. And things that had happened to me, and books that I had read, and the journey that I had taken, all helped to build up to knowing how to help you whenever the time came, I'm curious what was it your experience like coming in to see me for the first time? Do you remember the first few sessions and what that was like?
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:You know, it was the first couple of sessions were extremely tough for me. Again, still just going through the whole simple fact that being a man in this society, to sit down in that chair, across from you and say, this could help was one of the hardest decisions. It's like going in there and you're guarded, And you're like, I don't want to reach out. I don't want to admit. That I need help. And so those first couple of sessions were extremely awkward for me trying to one, collect my thoughts to say, all right, what do I need help on? Was really tough because I had no idea. I mean, never been in therapy before. The dynamic, the vernacular, we have no idea what's going to happen through our meeting, our sessions once a week at that time. It is. You build trust with your therapist, and you get to know them on a somewhat personal level, and you come to the conclusion that they are here to help, but they can't do it for you. That's the thing that really got me and struck me the most. It probably took about three months or so to really take our interactions and say, okay, Now it's not just verbiage, I'm not just sitting here talking about it. I need to act upon it, I need to find those things that calm my innerness, Relieve my depression, my anxiety, and go with the flow. doing those things that you told me to do. I grew up with a twin brother, so I always had that plus one. Went from him straight to my ex wife, and there was always that interaction between myself and one other person, that's who I held. All responsibility, All love, all everything too. And that, that was just a process that I had just growing up. My mom and my dad wrote. We got dressed the same until we were like 13 and we finally said, Hey, we want to buy our own clothes, everything else. So it was pretty tough to go through it and say, all right who is Charles and what is he all about? what makes him happy? What makes him tick? what fulfills the needs that he has in between his heads in the world around him. And I think that's been a big part of my story.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:What was it that changed at the three month mark? Cause I didn't know that that was like for you, something that had shifted.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:You know what? I think some of it was getting into the familiarity of it, I knew every week I had a meeting with you, Katrina, and to set that up, on structure. And I would set forth some rules. The day that we met, I would, try to take those mental notes of, Hey, this is what I'm getting out of the sessions, act upon that, Even if it was doing it, something as weird as just journaling, Doing a gratitude list at the beginning of the day doing that same list at night and saying, okay, How did Charles get through his day to day? And what was the mental mindset of the day,
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:Yeah. It's like you shifted from being someone who all the expectations were on you, everything was on you to, Okay, I didn't disappoint myself today. know, cause I think before it was all about you trying to make every single other person in your life happy and you didn't know how to make yourself happy while doing that simultaneously. So somewhere along the way you shifted and said, you know what, I'm I don't have control over that. So I'm going to work on just, just me for today. You know, do you think that that moment happened whenever I gave you that homework assignment that we're going to talk about? Like the pivotal moment? Was that around the same time? Cause I genuinely don't actually remember when I gave you that homework assignment. For me, it was just like a regular Tuesday, but I know whenever you came back the next week, you were a different person. And so let's, I want to talk about that too.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:Yeah. And it's so weird for me to look back on the process and even the continuing process that I'm in currently those small things that, that click, that light that shines brighter. That one thing that you reach out for and I've tried a lot, to, to try to get. everything righted in my head, So it's You Are Here by Thich Nhat Hanh. it goes through just the basics of the Buddhist teachings of being in the moment, being present gives you breathing techniques to ground yourself, right? To be in the moment, right? Don't get too far ahead of yourself. Don't worry about the past. This moment here, the, what is it? 84, 600 seconds in a day. If we can focus in on just some of those seconds to say, I'm here, I'm grounded. I have that path to walk forward and I don't have to overthink it, life to me has become this fluid river and there's all these little offshoots and everything that I can or can't choose sometimes to travel. But I love being in the boat, I love traveling the path of life now in a way that Is beautiful pragmatic and fulfilling in a way that I never expected it ever to be. through the simple techniques of the Buddhist teaching to say take that minute for yourself take that minute to Look at where life is, ground yourself in the next moment the next vision that you see if it's the mountains or Green grass or a particular plant, to meditate on the stupidest things to look at, and I love the analogy of the orange to say, I'm going to eat this orange, but I'm going to look at this orange in a way that I can see everything about that orange, right? I can see the blossom where it started. I can see the tree that bore the fruit. I can see the water that watered the tree to get to the tree to that size, To see everything in a different light to change my perspective on the world around me has been one of the biggest things that I've been able to accomplish so far in my life.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:I have a question for you. Because I know that, as you're explaining this because I have also lived it because I read You Are Here first, and I remember it being very impactful for me. And the reason why I assigned that to you for homework, because my experience with you first coming in was you were all over the place. I just remember during the sessions, your mind was just bouncing all over the room and I was like, okay, your homework is to chill. the fuck out.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:right.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:You gotta slow down. You gotta slow down. And you were like, I have so many things and all these problems to solve, and so I gave you that book and I remember going into the lobby to get you and you were like holding it up and you were like, this book changed my life. And I was like, yeah, okay, we'll see. And it did. So what would you say to people who are listening to this and they're just thinking okay, that's really dumb. That's just like a hippie thing to say that doesn't actually work. Just being present in the moment and paying attention to the orange and where the orange came from. Because it sounds stupid in today's society. So what would you say to someone who's listening? Who's okay, that's not going to do me any good.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:No, it is. It's definitely one of those. It was hard for me to write to read through that book and saying, is it this simple, Is it this stupid? Was one of the things that I had to get over as well and so to do that, to read the book and say, okay, I need to practice what the book is teaching me, Mindful breathing mindful steps, mindful eating, mindful everything, Was pretty weird, I'm just like, seriously, I don't think this is going to work at all, right? But through all my progress, I guess I'm like, wow, it's worth a shot. Let's try it. And to be mindful in a way. And I think I confused this too at first was I needed to be mindful about everything. What didn't matter for, I was eating, sleeping, walking, talking, thinking, I need to be mindful. I had to quiet that down too. Cause that, that kicked me into going all over the place again. I just focused in on the simple ones, Mindful breathing. And I would do that for maybe a minute, And even a minute back then was, was such a struggle because then I would find myself after 30 seconds saying, Oh, what about this? What about that? No, no, no, that's not the concept, For me, it was, it was surreal that first time that I actually, I guess she achieved that mindfulness point, right? And actually it was in the rooms with you one day in therapy and we were practicing together. And it was one of those things that I finally felt it, I finally felt my mind calm, my body ease. And from there, it almost felt like I was floating above us, That I was, and really what that, that keyed in on me was, that's how I changed my perspective of my life. that was the perspective change, that I got out of my own body and was seeing us above us, right? And in that moment, I finally figured it out, Mindfulness, all of that, it does. It's meant to calm yourself, to change your perspective of the world around you, to say, There's beauty in no control, and there's beauty in the control you can have, if we can control or help our bodies, our mind, to be mindful of everything that's current, that's here, that's now, that's a beautiful thing.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:Yeah. Mm. Your story has been so inspirational to me and getting to go on this journey with you has been amazing. Sometimes I wish I could go back and look at some of the quotes that you've said over the years. But I don't have access to some of them anymore, but there was one thing, like that I noticed about you that I really think made this. made therapy so successful is that you were literally willing to try anything. Like I would be like, try this. And you're like, okay. And you wouldn't fight me on it. You wouldn't tell me that it's stupid, and one of them finally clicked for you. It was a huge pivotal moment. And I think it's just, you were at, the basement pretty much, you were at your mental rock bottom. Like thankfully your life hadn't fallen apart. And so you had, I guess that is support, but one of the things that has always stuck with me that you started early on and you told me that, you would get really annoyed anytime you would get stopped at a red light.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:Yeah, no, and you are right. Red lights were my nemesis. And and actually in the book, they actually go through that particular scenario. And so now what I'm sitting at the. I can go back to my mindfulness training, right? And and for me it's weird and it's gonna sound stupid as I get out, but numbers are a big thing for me. And so I'm at a red light. I'm busy, I'm frustrated, I'm getting anxious, whatever. I look for my numbers on license plates, and that's my key to, to calm down, to do those mindfulness breaths. And to come back to myself, right? The internal workings of our society is so busy, right? There's so much in front of us. It's not what we're designed for, right? In a lot of ways. I don't think yeah we're simple beings, right? We're still animals and there's those needs that we have that are basic. With our society and everything that we've filled up our mental capacity to a point where it's too much, right? We overthink everything. There's so much bombardment on everything in our lives from our screens to, what we're listening to the radio, the, the 50 million choices you have on your vehicle, just to make it start. There's all of these things that we're bombarded by. So to take those moments and just come back to myself and say, you know what, this is the best thing I could do for myself is to decompress and understand my internal workings. Once you understand your internal workings a little bit better. Then the outside world comes to be more clarity, it puts your mind at ease to say, as long as I've got me, the rest of it will fall into place I don't have to worry about everybody else. I have to worry about me first,
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:whenever you say that, cause I know people listening are probably going to think if I put myself first, then I'm being selfish. How do you combat that? Because for you, I know it's very different.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:it is,
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:perception of what that means is so different.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:yeah, no, to actually go through this whole process and be okay with actually really just serving me. It doesn't have to have the interaction between two people or whatever to serve my purpose, I love the idea that I can come back and say, as long as I have everything for me mentally, physically, all that stuff, I radiate that out in a way that's unspoken. If I can go through my day and say, yeah, you know what? I'm figuring this out. I'm new to this too, today. I was the first day. I've lived this day, So I'm going to make those mistakes. But at the end of the day, if I live within my moral value, my, my beliefs and my system that's radiated out to the world at large. With that, I want to make sure that I've made a positive impact on maybe not the world at large, but that person at large, The small things that we do in our day to either the people that we love or perfectly good strangers. to do that, I think, makes me a better person, and I'm hoping it shows the world that that I'm here. I'm willing to step forward, step out, be kind, We talk about it in society and in therapy quite a bit being that proverbial nice guy. Which I think most men would say, yeah, I'm a pretty decent guy. There'll be a few out there that might not say that, but I. I really look at that of, there's a way to be that nice guy, but not give of yourself so much that you deplete your own internal value.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:I think for you, what I noticed is like, when you came into therapy, you were depleted. You were, your well was dry and you had all of these people still depending on you. I think what shifted is when you were able to say, you know what, I am here. And that was something that you would repeat all the time. I am here, I am here, I am here. And I think what happened is you went from being others focused to self focused, which sounds like selfishness and narcissism, right? When you say it out loud, but it's not, it's the opposite. In fact, you just said, I'm just going to be in the room that I'm in and the chair that I'm sitting in. I'm just going to be here. I'm not going to panic. I'm not going to freak out. I'm just going to show up and I'm just going to breathe. And you took that and you started doing that with everyone in your life.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:Right.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:And you would say that to family members, I'm here with you. I'm here. I'm just here. I'm in this room. I'm not thinking about other things. I am not trying to gain something from you. I am just here and What happens, I think, whenever you shift from others focused to me focused is you actually have more to give to other people because you're grounded. you know how to show up and just be in that one singular space with yourself. So now you can show up and listen really well as a friend or as a partner or as a father. what you're saying, when you're talking about it radiating, that's what it sounds like to me that you are showing up fully as your authentic self and people can feel that they feel that it's real. They feel that it's that you truly care because you have capacity now because you're not carrying all the way to the world with you 24 seven. Now you can listen. Now you can say I'm here with you. I'm nowhere else. Mm
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:Well, and it is weird. To put that into, I guess some of the concepts that I've been able to understand it myself, I was definitely one of those guys, codependent, everything else. I would drill this into the people that I love, my family, my friends, I would say it constantly. I love you. I love you. I love you. And in doing that, you would want that response, You want that affirmation of, oh, am I loved too? I was definitely one of those people that if I didn't get that back, I'd be like, what's going on? This is bullshit, I pronounced my love for you. It didn't matter if it was my wife, my kids My brothers, my sisters, my mom and my dad, whatever. And that was a huge point with me. Especially with my father the amount of times that I actually heard my dad say, I love you, was not even a handful of times, in the 50 years of life, that doesn't mean that there wasn't love there, but through that process and the teaching of the Buddhist mentality they don't teach, I love you. They teach loved one.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:What's the difference?
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:what's the difference between I love you and loved one. It was a way for me to look at that word love in a different perspective to say, it's not about physical. It's not about the words. It's about the feeling of love. it's an internal feeling, It's not an outward progression or gesture being loved, And giving love is one of those things that we can only do with our hearts, But when I say loved one, that brings me back to myself and what I am trying to give to that person that I'm speaking to to say it out loud and say, loved one, I'm here for you. is one of the biggest things you can say to another person in your life, especially when you truly mean it. And it started for me with saying, Charles, loved one, I'm here for you. Be there for yourself first. Yeah, it sounds horrible, but that's really the start of it, We can only give what we have, We can only give out what we've learned, To go through life and say, it's not a hidden agenda. It's just me being me and I have everything to give if I choose to give it. I love me enough to say that. And then from there I can trickle that out when it's needed.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:It sounds to me, when you describe it, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, but it sounds like the difference between I love you and loved one is saying I love you starts with I.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:Right.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:some reason, when you describe it just now, it felt to me like I love you. I am sending love to you. But like you're hoping like it's a boomerang that it'll come back. If you send it out, it comes back to you. But loved one just says it's already there.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:it's still for me a lot of changing my perspective from I love you. That's a that's just out there. There's no feeling behind it for me. But when I say loved one, that brings me back to myself and it taught me right and it still does to this day. When I say that internally, I do this quick progression of. Why am I saying this, What do I have to give, right? The biggest thing you can give of anybody or to anybody is your heart, Your soul your being. It's just, it's huge, hugely different for me to say I love you is, yeah, it's that boomerang statement that it's like, Oh God, I hope she, or they say it back. But when I say loved one, it's just out there, It's just there for somebody to receive. And it's done with a zero point value for me. It's not, I'm going to give this out to get it back. I'm sending it out and I don't want it back because I have enough to give.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:You want it to go to that person and stay. because you're so full, because you were able to say to yourself like, okay, Charles, I am here for you all the time. I've always been here for you. I'm never going to leave you. You were full. So now when you send out love, it can stay with that person. It's not coming from a place of desperation.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:exactly. And it took, gosh, I mean, it's amazing. And it is hard to put into words where I was at, coming out of, my first year of sobriety. To where I am now is heads and tails different. Which took a lot, I think getting over any addiction is one of the biggest things that the biggest hurdle that anybody's ever going to go through in their lives, Guarantee you that but to go through the process and I can't stress it enough. Something that you said too. i've tried a million different things been in aa done, you know a whole bunch of meetings in there and obviously it's an open discussion so you take what you can use and you leave the rest and The amount of stuff that I've tried and just to say, Hey, yeah it's worth a shot. Some of them really didn't hit real well and others like reaching out and talking to a professional therapist is one of those things that not in a million years, what I ever thought I would be in the position to. To accept to do, and just saying, I, I need help. I need somebody else to understand what's going on in between these years, because it's a mess to me, To do that and come out of it the way that I have and the growth that I've had, I think everybody thinks, at 50, you got everything figured out. And that's not the case for me for sure. But I think there's a lot of people out there in the same. Predicament, To hit that 50 point in anybody's life, I think, for me, it's been one of those it's half over. And probably more than half over if you know, look at the stats, right? But to reach out at, I guess, quote unquote, let's say my advanced age and say that I do need help. And I needed somebody to Guide me in inner workings and to understand what goes on in between these years is some days a huge mess, for starting this process. It was a fucking shit show in there, man.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:And speaking of that what is it about our therapeutic relationship that played into this? How has that helped you?
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:I think in a lot of ways it still comes down to the mental mentality of men. And we don't want to express our feelings. We don't want to let somebody in between these ears because it's a scary fucking place it's could be one of those things that, that there's a movie with Jim Curry in it. And he's once you get into this head, there's no going back, baby. And that's really, I think a lot of my mentality, who wants to open themselves up to do the. Proverbial bleed out to another person,
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:What was that like for you to do that with me? Cause one, I'm a woman and two, I'm also younger than you. So was there, were there any issues with that? Coming in and talking to somebody who's younger than you too. Cause. and a woman who may not understand you, How did you experience that? Were you worried about how I saw you? Were you worried about if I would judge you? Did you not trust me?
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:Yeah, no, it's definitely been a progression, One of the first I think it was like the second meeting because the first meeting, I was a total wreck, I was just,
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:Nobody ever
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:No, yeah, I was bawling through the whole thing, you know, for me, all this other BS, But that's definitely crossed my mind, I can remember. A couple of things just, I think it was like our third meeting and I'm like we've, you finally started getting some comfort level in it. So you started calling me on my bullshit, right? And that was a hard pill to swallow. I'm like, what the fuck is this gal telling me what, there's definitely,
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:Doing that.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:and you know what, and I just had it to what what you actually told me to do and I'm like, you're crazy.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:What was it?
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:You don't.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:you say what it was? Are you comfortable
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:Now, and I'm pretty sure it was the first time that you told me. You asked me, right? And said, Hey, what other females do you have in your life? And can you talk to those,
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:I remember saying
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:Yeah. no. And it was one of those things With my wife at that time, that ensued or instituted a fear that was crazy for me, I'm just like, talk to another girl. And have those in depth conversations that I always wanted to do with my wife but never had the capacity to and yeah I remember walking out of that room and I was pissed. I'm like, what is she doing now? I'm like, she doesn't even know what she's talking about. And through the process, it took me a couple of days to even just narrow down the one other female in my life that I could talk to that I trusted. To just, not go through everything, but to have that voice, that's the beautiful thing about therapy, Is to express your feelings, have them heard, To get it off our chest, Especially as a man. To say, I have some issues, I need to talk to somebody. Just saying it out loud, to another person, is 50 percent of the battle, if not more, Because once it's out there, once we say it, then we have to rely on somebody else to say, Hey, what do you think about this? Even if the answer is, I don't know either, You said it, You said it out loud. And it's amazing. We can we can do gratitude lists. We can write shit down all the time, To say, okay what's my inner thoughts? What's my feeling on this or whatever? We can write it and it does help. But once we say it to another individual, That's when it holds more meaning to me, Not that I'm releasing it to somebody else so it's their damn problem, but I'm saying it out loud. So now if there's an answer or something else I could work on, it's out there for somebody to say, Hey, what if you did this? What if you tried that?
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:what people often think about therapy, too, is that you're gonna go, and they're not gonna give you any advice. They're just gonna be a really good listener. And some therapists do that. And, I mean, in their defense, we were taught that in grad school, I think that was helpful, my approach to it as well. Cause maybe if I was just listening, I think it might've been tough for you because I had to jump in and stop the pattern of you just racing and your thoughts and not knowing where to go and, and then saying, okay, try this one thing, just try this one thing, and come back and see how it goes. And I think too, just from my perspective, it seems like it's been helpful for you to just have somebody who is just in your corner with no judgment. Cause you've told me your deep dark secrets, and it helped me understand all of who you are. And there's power in that to be fully seen and have somebody say, Oh, I get it. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. I understand that. Oh, you did that thing. Okay. And, and what, which makes me want to talk about the shame that you have from the past from those 20 years of being an alcoholic. And how that's impacted your family and your ability to not show up for them like you can now, how are you able to overcome that shame? Cause it was heavy.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:no, 20 years of being alcoholic God, it was one of the hardest things ever to look back of the wrongs that I've done, right? Everything it Led me up to the point where I said, screw it. I know I'm an alcoholic and I need help. The progress to get to where I'm at to say, yes, my past is my past and that's it, it took a lot and I still have those moments, where I feel ashamed. of my past actions, It comes up in a lot of conversations in my life still, even though I'm just about five years into sobriety. Those people that finally let you know what you did while you were drinking. And I think a lot of the shame in that is not knowing, not remembering what you did,
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:Yeah.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:still hear those stories of, Oh, remember you're at this party and you did this. You're like, Oh, I can't believe it. One, I did that. And two thankfully on a lot of occasions, I don't remember shit from that. Right. But, uh,
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:Yeah, kind of. Yeah.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:it's definitely a different scenario on it. But yeah, no, everything from my past. And I think that's one of the beautiful things that our sessions and. Life has taught me yeah, everybody has shit in their past and if we choose to go to that perspective of I'm a bad person, I've done things in the past I'm not proud of, and you're going to dwell on that, is one of the worst things you can do in your life, There's those sayings in a million different books, If you have one foot in the past and one foot in the future, where you at, You need to be here for today. With that being said, I can't make my past go away, It is what it is. To be mindful and respectful of that, of, I know who I was back then and truly was not proud of who I was, That drives it home on a day to day basis for me to say, Today is the day that Charles can do what he needs for himself, and what he can give to the other human beings in their life. I love my past. I truly do. All the ups and downs, the bad shit, the good shit, all of it. It's all part of it. And I've got to be reverent in the fact that it brought me to where I'm at today. Good, bad, or indifferent. All of that shit in the past still got me here, And if I can say, here in this moment, I'm the best version of Charles, today, that he could, can be. That's perfect. My future is what can Charles do tomorrow to be better than today?
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:Something that you taught me last year, we were talking about what triggered you to stop drinking. There was a specific moment and a specific look that happened from someone in your life that looked at you a certain way. And because of some event, anyways, we won't give details on it, but what was so astounding to me is how Well, backtrack. In today's society, whenever we mention shame, it's something bad. That's a bad emotion to have. Don't have shame. Get rid of shame. Shame is horrible. But what I learned from you last year when we were retelling this story, for you, shame was the thing that helped you stop drinking. Finally, it was the thing of Oh my gosh, this person that I care so much about just gave me this look of pure disappointment, pure letdown, just that you could see it in their eyes and that shame that you felt of, I'm a piece of shit and I need to work on this, that finally got you to finally recognize wait, okay, I need to change. So I think it's a mixed bag with shame for you, Because there's a shame of the stuff you don't remember, the stuff you do remember the being absent for your children, being absent for your ex wife, like all of those things, and simultaneously it also helped pull you out. What I love about you is your perspective on the past now. Because maybe that's the journey you needed to go on to get to be this person now, how even the bad stuff played into something really good. And I think that's so beautiful that you're able to do that.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:That's the biggest thing for me is, life is such a ride, And it's the same right for me as it is the person next door, It's all in what I. I went out, Where does life lead us? Tomorrow, next week, a year from now, really? Fuck. Who knows? Nobody knows, We have goals. We have aspirations or whatever. With that being said, if we don't learn from the mistakes of our past, if we don't change our actions. Then it's for not, We could dwell on it. We could say, Oh, yeah, it's the past of the past and fuck it. I'm just over with it. I'm never going to think about it again. It's not going to happen. Life interactions with yourself internally and externally. It's going to come up, Your past is still your past. What you choose to do with today is the biggest difference. You were talking about, yeah, no, One day at a time. Yeah. And you did touch on that. And that was another part of some mindfulness training that I got from the book, was to look at my past and say, yeah it is what it is. But to be mindful of the people in my life now and. That small interaction, And it's the look, I see it in almost everybody that I meet. It doesn't matter if I see him once a month every day, whatever, I can see a difference in them, I hope they see the same in me. But it goes beyond that. Say something, Say something to your fellow man. Maybe it's that friend that you haven't seen for a couple of months or whatever. It's just say what you feel. Even if it's, Hey, God, you look like shit, there's a whole bunch of interaction, to to say what's in your heart and say, okay, maybe. Even if I tell my buddy, my best friend, Jesus, did you not get enough sleep last night? Cause you looked like total dog shit. That's still that interaction that I'm being truthful to myself. And I love that because I can look at somebody now In that perspective and say what can I do, Where can I help in this moment, in today? And a lot of that stems from my past, My past would tell me I'm going to fix it. And I'm going to fix it. The only way I know how, which is it was at the bottle of a can of beer, That was the fix for everything until it wasn't. And once it wasn't anymore, wow, it was so eyeopening to say, holy fuck, I have no idea what what life is, I have no idea who Charles is deep down and saying, am I about, What do I honor in myself to put out to the world that makes me. And being a twin and being a, very much just a singular plus one type of person codependent of a whole nine, that was huge for me to say, I don't need anybody at all. I need Charles first and just. Selfish and let's just put it out there because that's what everybody's going to think has been an eye opener for me to say, this is who I'm about who I am. This is what I'm about. This is my story. And this is what I can do. And it starts with what can Charles do for Charles today to make Charles a better person. And then from there, put that out as that ripple effect
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:what's interesting about what you're saying too is your impact in the world now, and how you're seeing it and you're sending it out. You were doing all the same things before too. You were being selfish before too.
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:Right.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:And this time you just shifted it, right? That's the difference. We're always making waves. You were making a ton of waves during those 20 years of drinking and they were having negative effects. And like you just said, now you're seeing it come back to you because you're sending out the good stuff now. And so good stuff is coming back to you before you were sending out bad stuff and bad stuff was coming back to you, you know? And so I think that's the key right there is realizing that we're impacting the world all the time. We're always being selfish because that's how humans. exist. You know what I mean? Like when we do something nice for somebody else, we do it because it feels good for us. You know, we like the feeling of helping others and there's nothing wrong with that. That's beautiful. And you shifted it from, okay, I'm going to take care of Charles by drinking because he doesn't want to remember any of this. Cause it hurts. It hurts a lot. It hurts to exist. It hurts to think it hurts to be in my relationship. It hurts to be a father. I'm failing at all of these things. And you shifted it to OK. Well, that didn't work. It didn't work for me. I tried to cope with it. It just didn't work. So let me try something new. And you tried out a bunch of different things and you finally, for you, found something that worked. And that's that Buddhist mindset of just straight awareness and mindfulness. And I think that's just amazing and I, for anybody who's listening, it's, your path is going to look different. Not every client that I've talked to, that's not their aha moment. I've given that book to other clients who read it and they're like, okay, you know, like it meant nothing to them, but they have like different aha moments and, we each have our own different journey, but I just love that you shifted it. And, It's all about perspective. That is what I am learning about life is everything is about perspective. Cause you were viewing the world before as everything is negative. I'm not doing enough. I'm giving all this stuff for my family. I'm providing everything I'm supposed to provide. I'm supposed to get love back from them and I didn't get it. So I must not be doing enough, and said, you know, there was actually a lot of good happening in your life. And you talk about that a lot in our sessions recently, how you didn't realize during that time while you were drinking, the people were still looking up to you and you were missing all of those things because your perspective was to focus in on the negatives of how you were feeling about yourself. And about your relationship, and about having your needs met, but never asking for your needs to be met. And thinking that your needs were too much,
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:I think that's the biggest thing for me is yeah, positive things were happening even when I was, in the throes of my alcoholism but I was Too depressed, too inebriated to even take that into effect, To look at my progression and kind of how I've gotten to this point, One of the lowest moments in my progression in my life so far was the goals that I set up that were instituted through my dad, My dad was older when when he had me come from a very large family. And one of the things that, that he instilled in all of us was working hard succeeding, There, there was a progression in even from a young age, he was teaching us how to run a business, Good, bad, or indifferent, right? Depending on his mood for the day. But I set that goal up in my head, When I was a young man and saying, I want to work hard. I want to be. Everything to everybody. And the biggest one that I set up myself for the biggest failure was as long as I can work hard enough to provide everything for everybody around me, Once they have everything that they want, then I'll get what I want. And that was one of the hardest things to get over. Because it did. I made it happen, I worked damn hard. I, Jesus worked 14, 16 hours a day trying to get the company going and running and all of this. And it's very successful. I love the position I'm in, but to set that all up to say, okay, now my wife and my kids have everything and then some that they'll ever need in their life. It was beautiful until it wasn't, Eventually that, that clicked in me. I'm like, wait a minute, they're happy as ever because they have all their needs met and none of mine, because I set it up that way, we're being met. And that was the biggest thing, the biggest key in where I'm at today it was that singular goal that I had that trashed my inner workings, Because I depended on somebody else for my happiness, not my own.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm,
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:That's exactly what I set up in my head.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm, mm,
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:If everybody else is happy, if they've got all the money, all the clothes, all the vacations, whatever they want was at my beck and call, then eventually that would reciprocate back to me and I would get what I needed, There were so many faults in that perspective, One, even on the flip side, I didn't have the courage to tell anybody. What I felt that I needed in a significant other or in any relationship that I had, I was just the proverbial nice guy and, oh, yeah, you need, this, you need money, whatever, I'll do it for you to change that and say, yeah, you know what it was one of the hardest things ever to say, I need to put myself first. And that was really instilled through you Katrina on that singular entity that I always talked about. You finally drove it home enough to where it's like that singular entity should be you first, not another person. It should be you. And I love how you put it. You only get one you, so you got to take care of you first. And even the stupid analogy, you put a finger up and it's this is the only you get. I'm like, okay. Um, so yeah, I know there it's amazing our progression through life as humans. We can go through all of that and make a point to understand it, Or we can go through that and make it a point to not, And those people out there that they don't want to understand their own inner workings, Their mentalities, their inner thoughts the yin and yang on both shoulders, The good and evil portion of your psyche, has been a beautiful thing for me to get to know and understand So without reaching out and going through this process with a therapist and with you, Katrina I have done myself the best self service that I could ever imagine as a human, to reach out to say, I need help, and I need to talk to somebody. it's not just interaction, It's not just, Oh, I have to go to therapy, I hear that all the time. And I love changing that perspective of I get to go to therapy, Because it's amazing how it's, Progressed in my life that it's made such a profound effect on my inner workings and the world at large for me to jump in the driver's seat and say, you know what, there's days I don't have this and those days that I don't, I have somebody to listen. It starts with just listening,
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:mm,
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:if we can have enough courage to just say it, If you're struggling, especially if you're a man, say something. It doesn't have to be to a therapist, right? Pick those people that that are your friends, that really do understand where you're at society for men in general, and I think for sure in married men, it's pretty tough. We get closed into our dynamic, And what our life's become is what's really in front of us on a day to day basis, and that is our wives, our kids. Our job, So we get very one sided. I don't know many guys out there anymore that have. A tribe, A group of friends that they can rely on, Be able to talk to you, call into, check you up on, That's been a big focus in my life, is trying to find the ND, that tribe, outside of my family parameters. To say, it's this total stranger, That you build this relationship with that it's easy. I mean, I'm not going to go to my best friend and say, Hey, sign this paper. And then if we ever fall out of friendship, I owe you alimony for six, So, so there's a freedom in that to know. You have that other group of friends, those other people that you can connect with, and hopefully you can find those people that that you can't tell your, tell them your inner thoughts, your emotions your your needs, and do it in a way that it's not. Bitching, It's not, oh shit Joe my wife did this and this is bullshit. But if we can change the perspective in the way that we communicate with not only your wife and your family, but your friends,
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:whenever we used to talk about that and you making friends, I know that there was some resistance that I experienced from you in that. Because for you, it was like a betrayal to your wife, Because you were, like you said, you were very stuck on this is my one human, they're all I need. And now you were like, you know what? Okay, I'm going to try it. And I think you realized, if I remember correctly, I think you somewhere along the way, realized that there's a lot of people in your life who want to be a part of your life and who have been trying to spend one on one time with you. And you leaned into it and you're like, okay, I guess I'm going to try this now because, other areas of your life weren't fulfilling. And one person can't fulfill everyone's needs. You know what I mean? And you need other people. And now where you are with your marriage having ended, thankfully you are in a really good place because you have that group. you have your people that are inviting you on vacations with them and all of this stuff now, which is beautiful. When before, who knows where you would be, if you hadn't done all of this work and try new things and put yourself out there and questioned where you got your worth and your happiness and your needs met,
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:right. No, I mean, man, life has been for the first time ever. Life is such a beautiful thing. Life is everything. And, to answer your question, where would I be if I didn't take these opportunities? And say, yes, I'm going to try it. Or, yeah, I'm going to try to figure it out. I'm going to get out of my comfort zone. To better myself. And maybe that's bettering yourself through other people. But yeah, to answer that, where I'm at right now and where I probably would have been in any other scenario, would be downstairs getting hammered, And having my own fucking pity party and saying, I got nobody and nobody likes me or whatever to change that in my life through this process, And through life's process, Has been just amazing. It's been such a beautiful thing to reach out and connect to other people other than my wife and even my kids,
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:Mm hmm,
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:I was guarding myself against the truth through my other plus one. I didn't want to tell him my inner working feelings or whatever, because it wasn't based on that relationship that even we have together Katrina, which is based on a lot of trust. It's a safe place. For let's be honest with for both of us to share our thoughts and feelings right with no judgment. With the best interest of each other in mind. That's what we need as a society is those people that we can depend on for our own growth. And if we close ourself off to experience it or trying it or anything like that, then we're doing ourselves a disservice. Right.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:Yeah, and with therapy too, I think this is what I like to sell people on regarding therapy is we in the room together are in a mock simulator. Like we can't crash. So you got to build a relationship with everybody. A person outside of your singular person first, before you went into friendship, you got to build it with me and with me, there was safety, right? Because we have confidentiality. We have the one sidedness of the relationship where, it is all about you. You don't have to worry about meeting my needs. And I think that's a really beautiful space to be in where we do get to just talk about you and focus on you and it's somebody who genuinely cares and likes you, and I think that's, your trust in me was a first step to you being able to trust other people. Because, you probably, like you said, you didn't feel safe trusting other people. And now you're going out there and you're rebuilding relationships and rebuilding relationships with your kids and with brand new people and all of this stuff. And you're investing in different areas now and it's just, It's really, really amazing to watch you do that. And I'm just so incredibly proud of you. And I'm sure I've said this, hopefully I've said this enough, but I really am. It's been amazing to watch you do this journey. For me as just a human I learned so much from you. Your aha moments for me sometimes become my aha moments too, where I'm like, Oh my gosh, that makes so much sense. And it's just beautiful how. My aha moments that I've had individually were helpful for you, it's just, it's amazing. It's a really beautiful space that's safe to share things back and forth. Is there anything else that you want to add in any topics that we haven't talked about yet?
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:The one thing I guess that I still would love to just drive home to, whoever's listening to this is therapy is not a bad word, To reach out and say, I don't have this and I need help for every man out there. I think they've got to be able to hopefully listen to this, be inspired by. The connections that I've made, the progress that I'm continuing, And that's the one thing I love about our process, As humans, And in our mindsets it's not a great, We don't graduate from this thing. If we're not putting ourselves out there and trying those things, making those connections being truthful to ourselves where we're at mentally. It never ends. And I think a lot of people in their first sessions or whatever, or if they're even new to it, or I haven't even tried it yet, that's where it starts. Is. If I can just say something to another human being of where I'm at mentally that's huge for a man, To say something out loud gives us meaning, It, it solidifies that thought into, it's not just in my head. Now it's out into the world. And when it's accepted by another human, a caring, trusting human being, it doesn't have to have an answer. But as long as they're the connections there to say it's not given to you to deal with but it's out there for us to share and come up with some new ideas. That's huge. I see it. I see it a lot in my interactions, even my own company. I can read people much better, on every front of it, I know those males that are in my life that are still struggling with their inner workings, And to try to be that olive branch for them to say, yeah, you know what? I've done the same things. I've gone through, an addiction. I've gone through, separation, divorce, all of that. And. Not that it's all a happy go lucky thing but I have to look at my life as this is still progress. It's still going forward, I could fight it. I could say I want to stay in this part of my river for the rest of my life, but that's not going to happen, The river of life is still going to flow. And it's going to push us into being uncomfortable, There's going to be those times that it seems like you got everything. You got your shit in a pile and you're ready to go do it. And then the next moment, or even the next day it's a shit show. You're trying to flush down the toilet, To be able to say, because of my therapy, I am better all around. Between my own ears has been an enlightenment for me that I can't even explain I love the skin. I'm in for the first time in 50 years. And it starts with saying, I need help. I know I don't have this. I know I can't fix this on my own. Men out there, reach out we have to start opening up the communications of where we're at as a society, as men there's a whole bunch of pressures and those pressures are changing on a exponential rate that I know at my age, I'm having a hard time connecting with the younger generations because of the mindset of the mentality of where they fit in society growing up in a very traditional household, all my brothers, we were expected to work in the field, All the girls in my family were expected to clean the house and everything else, which. You say it out loud, especially in today's day and age, and it's holy shit, that is fucked up, But we have to look back on it, for society as a whole, that's been the vernacular, Survival of the fittest being my name is Charles. There's an evolution to that, right? We're losing that as a society, as men and women, to know what our particular roles are in society. What does it mean on our base level to be a male, to be a dad, to be a father, What it's like on the other side of things, What is it like to be a traditional female, Or non traditional, Where are those roles? What and how we fulfill those are such a great area anymore. The roles of a traditional male and female are changing. Those old mentalities are still there, and I still have them.
katrina_1_08-09-2024_091507:And, as you're, you Charles are like entering into the dating world, we've talked about that too and how, women now we make money. We're business owners. I'm a business owner. I don't need a husband to financially support me, and part of your story that was so big was that you were financially providing for your family and you thought that should be enough. But. What happens now is like women, we can do that for ourselves. It's not enough anymore. Now we don't want to carry the emotional weight of the relationship because women are more emotionally intelligent most of the time, because it's just naturally how we interact with other women. Now men have to step up, if you're wanting those relationships and I think it's beautiful you're living proof of that. You came from someplace that was traditional where it was like, okay, well, I can only provide financially for my family and I don't need to provide emotional anything. And now you're seeing how beautiful providing emotional support for yourself and for others is. It actually brings you so much closer to other people than it did whenever you were just providing financially. What I love with working with men is that I get to teach the basics and set you guys off on your own of like, okay, let me teach you about emotional intelligence. How do you even know what an emotion feels like? How do you identify it in yourself? How do you name it? It's learning a different language, honestly, and so with men, especially if single men are listening. This is where you have to grow. It's not in the financial side of it. Women. Yes. You look online, women care about money, blah, blah, blah, but really it's emotional intelligence. So women care about the most from my experience. And I think for you, Charles, it's just really helpful because you're the whole package, I don't expect you to be single for too long. I really don't. Um, you've put in the work and you did that for yourself in every aspect of life, and you're continuing to grow and you still have areas that you need to work on, but it's been very beautiful to watch. So I appreciate you sharing this. I do have one final question for you. What is the secret to a good life?
charles_1_08-09-2024_091504:That's, that's a good question, The secret for me to living my best life is just waking up in the morning, It's not this whole. genre, Of, I have to have all my shit in a pile. I've got to have it all out in front of me. I've got to have a plan. I got to have goals. I got to, got to, got to, got to, To live my best life on a minute to minute basis to let the world flow through me, to have my needs met. In between my own ears for the first time actually has been amazing, I'm a big survival guy. I love the outdoors, everything else. And it's said in those shows especially the show alone, They're out there all alone, They have no family, no support. It's just them. And that's one of the things that all of the contestants struggle with is how to be. By yourself for months on end, That's one of the biggest keys in life, If you can be happy within you, then the rest of it's easy. Look at the sunrise. Hell, my truck started today. That's great. You know, I mean, looking at the smallest things in my life as That positive, that that trampoline jump into the next event in my life, To go through and just let it come to me. for me internally, my mental state is everything. And that's what I focus in on a moment to moment basis. Where is Charles today? Um, is he having a bad day? Oh, that's that sucks for Charles for today. What can I do differently? How can I how can I change my perspective to say, yeah, today's a today can be a good day. Let's hit that reset button on me and say, you know what? I was maybe not the best interaction I just had. I don't have to carry that the rest of the day. For the first time in 50 some odd years, I love getting out of bed. I want to show the world what Charles has to offer on a minute to minute on the smallest of minute scales, because that's part of my purpose to fulfill my own needs. And with that trickle into my life I am the man that I wanted to be for the longest time, but had no, no idea how to reach that through our process, it's relieving for me to say, I am the man that I want to be, not everything's easy. Life is a journey that we get to experience I love life. I don't have to jump off a cliff to live. If I get out of bed. I take my first meaningful breath. I'm already living. Just keep it going. Simple.
Well, thank you again to Charles for sharing his story with us. I hope you guys were all inspired just as I have been inspired over the years, watching him grow and change over time. It has been an incredible journey and I feel Absolutely honored that he has trusted me on this journey. As a reminder, this is not therapeutic advice or a substitute for therapy. I am a therapist, but I am not your therapist. So if you are looking for therapy in your area, I do have links below to check them out. And again, don't forget to hit that subscribe button. See you guys next time.
