The Therapy Alchemist
Change is not just about the science and research. Mental health isn't just what we characterize as a disorder or not. It's also about the mystical ways in which we change and grow. Science can't study everything about our inner spirit/soul.
On this podcast, a Licensed Professional Counselor in Colorado dives into the spaces that science cannot go. Discussing what ACTUAL growth and change look like. Filling in the gaps that the pop-psychology world misses, completely ignores, or sometimes shames. Plus some tips and tricks along the way to help you achieve your own personal legend.
The Therapy Alchemist
#15 Braving the New Dating World with Jason VanRuler
Today I talk with Jason VanRuler, a licensed therapist, author, coach, keynote speaker, and social media influencer on relationships, discussing the challenges and nuances of the modern dating world. We cover a range of topics including the impact of dating apps (like the new Bumble controversy), the distinction between wants and needs in relationships, and practical advice for establishing healthy, authentic connections. We dive into the importance of understanding past experiences, self-awareness in dating, and strategies for handling conflict and building resilience in relationships. We also touch on specific advice for men considering therapy and conclude with insights on embracing vulnerability for deeper relationship satisfaction. Enjoy!
00:00 Understanding Wants vs. Needs: A Deep Dive
00:44 Introducing Jason VanRuler: Expert on Modern Dating
01:04 Navigating the Modern Dating World: Challenges and Advice
01:20 The Reality of Dating Apps and Relationship Expectations
04:23 Embracing Vulnerability in Dating
06:36 The Quest for Authenticity and Self-Discovery in Relationships
14:15 Conflict Resolution: Turning Challenges into Opportunities
18:52 Deepening Emotional Intelligence and Communication in Relationships
20:35 Navigating Romantic Relationships vs. Friendships
21:29 The Impact of Attachment Theory on Relationships
22:22 Learning from Friendships to Improve Romantic Bonds
22:54 Self-Discovery and Healing in Relationships
23:52 The Power of Self-Love and Empathy
24:57 Challenges and Growth in Modern Dating
25:32 The Importance of Relationships in Life
26:18 Navigating Relationships with Self-Awareness
27:20 Overcoming the Past for a Healthier Future
32:24 Therapy's Role in Personal and Relationship Growth
35:19 Promoting Personal Projects and Closing Thoughts
---
Jason's Instagram
Jason's Website
Jason's Book
Instagram
TikTok
Facebook
LinkedIn
*This is not a substitute for therapy nor is it therapeutic advice. If you would like to find a therapist in your area check out psychologytoday.com, goodtherapy.org, or therapyden.com
How do people determine the difference between want and needs?
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:That's a great question. Most people think want and need are the same thing. And that's actually called a demand. And if we're
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:ah,
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:over the place, we're never going to resolve conflict.
Hey guys. Welcome back to another episode today. I have a very special guest. His name is Jason VanRuler. Jason is a licensed therapist. He's the author of the book. Get past your past. He is a coach, a keynote speaker, and a social media guru on relationships. So you definitely want to follow him. So you guys, please join me as we discuss the modern dating world.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Hey, Jason. Thank you so much for joining me on my podcast. I'm really excited to have you. So, I wanted to talk about the modern dating world. we talked a little bit about, this before we started recording, but there is a big controversy happening with Bumble, the dating app, where they posted an ad that says, you know full well, a vow of celibacy is not the answer. So there's a lot of people who are just jumping ship on the dating apps, jumping ship on relationships and all of that stuff. And so I wanted to get your advice on things, as an expert on relationship building, what dating advice that you have for people in the modern dating world and what healthy relationships actually look like. Mm hmm.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:Yeah, well, I mean, it's rough out there. I think we all know that. That's that's the feedback that I hear so often is that it's just it's really, it feels really risky. It feels emotionally taxing. Like I talked to a lot of people who say like this is just exhausting to try to do this. And I think like we were talking about, I mean, a lot of that has to do with what our expectations are about other people and ourselves and where those come from. And then our inability to measure up. Right? We've never had so much information, that we could access about what a relationship is supposed to look like. and then we also have never had so few examples of what that actually looks like. And so we, it's like we're just this generation of people reading books about how it should be. but they're books about how it should be. so what we find after doing all of that is just like we're, we're, I think I told you like we're chronically disappointed. We're disappointed. Because either we don't measure up or they don't measure up or both.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Yeah, absolutely. And, something that I find, and one of the main themes of my podcast of why I started this podcast is because I feel like the research is thrown in our face too much and the reality of life is not actually shown. So people have these really high expectations about what relationships and change and everything is supposed to look like. so what would you say about like how people are approaching dating these days? do you have any tips for them? I mean, since there's all of this information to like, Oh, you can read all of these books and stuff, but like, what's the real life? How does dating, how is dating supposed to actually look?
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:Yeah, I think it's supposed to be relational if I remember correctly, right? That that's the whole point is to be in relationship with people and get to know ourselves better, but get to know them in the process. I think how we've been approaching it lately is just very cautiously. and I wouldn't even say cautiously optimistic. We're just being very cautious. And Most people are saying, I know I want a relationship. I know I ought to have one, and yet I'm mostly certain I won't. And so I will very carefully try to insert myself into some part of the dating process while fully expecting it not to work. so the challenge with that, like I was telling you, is it kind of is conditioning people to be avoidantly attached. Because if you're not, you're always going to be hurt, right? Because people are not going to respond to your messages. People are not going to call you back. They're not going to meet you a second time. And so in order to really participate in dating, it's like people have had to develop this kind of really thick skin, which actually prevents a relationship.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Absolutely. that's something that when I think about my approach to dating, I have to, I had to rewire my brain a little bit on this because when I first entered the dating world, I was told by a bunch of women, they were like, don't put all of your eggs in one basket. Don't just date one person at a time. You know, like it was very guarded, kind of a men against women vibe, So I've been, I've switched everything to where I just like, I'm like, I'm going to go all in on every relationship that I, every date that I go in. I'm going to go all in and be vulnerable. And, it is, it's actually strange how much healthier it feels for me to do that. Because whenever I was holding back and somebody would reject me, I would, Overthink it and be like, Oh my gosh, well, maybe I should have done X, Y, and Z. And I would question my self worth. Right. Cause it's just like consistent rejection over and over. But now that I go all in now, it's like, if they reject me or if there's like incompatibility, I'm like, Oh, well, it's not about me then. Cause I did the best that I could. And I've been vulnerable and I'm open to love and I'm positive going in, but it is really scary to do. It is so scary. And the avoidance that you're talking about.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:mean, it takes a lot of courage to do that.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:hmm. Yeah, it's uh, it's tough. It's been tough out there, for sure. Mm
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:just love that you're willing to do it though, because to your point, what we all want is we want a genuine, authentic relationship, but how do we get that if we start and we aren't authentic right out of the gate, we're not, we're going to have to make that switch somewhere along the line. And so what I love about what you're saying is like, yeah, it takes an act of courage. It is scary. It does hurt. And yet I'm going to show up authentically because at least I know. For sure, if it's a fit or not, right, because otherwise we do the thing where we project a version of ourselves that we think the other person wants, and then if we're rejected, we find ourselves questioning if we projected the wrong version, that's a very confusing process, right? Because it's like, well, I projected I thought exactly who they would want me to be, and they didn't want me. So who should I have been instead? When the truth is who you should be is who you are. Because ultimately lasting relationships are about a person actually loving you for you, not the version you project.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Mm hmm. Yeah, so what advice would you give to people on how to do that and be brave?
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:advice that there is. It's, it's be yourself. and it's very simple and very hard at the same time, because the thing is, is that if you don't know who you are when you're approaching dating, lots of people will tell you who to be,
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Mm
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:you know, and if you don't know what works for you and what you need, lots of people will tell you what you should need. And so the challenge that we have right now is that there are so many voices of people and even experts and people in our field who are happy to tell you how you're supposed to live your life. But I'm just so much more interested in how do you need to live your life? what do you actually need? And I think if you approach dating from that perspective, you are far more likely to find people you're compatible with.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Yeah, I find that to be very true, I tried the multiple dating people at the same time and I hated that. It didn't fit me. So I'm like, I only schedule one day at a time and I get to know one person at a time and it slows down the process for me, so that I don't feel like the other person is having to compete for my attention or have this weird, I don't know. Competitiveness, because it's just so easy to just toss somebody aside if they have any kind of like red flag, you know? instead, like,
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:don't we look for people without red flags? Isn't that the point you have to find someone perfect
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Yes, yeah, you have to find that perfect person who just always aligns with you and never has insecurities and has nothing wrong with them.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:find that there are perfect people out there. You just have to look hard enough
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Yeah, you have to search.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:so little bit sarcastic
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Search all eight billion people on the planet, interview everyone in detail.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:it could happen it could happen but but what I like is you're just taking a practical approach of let's do what works for me and how do do something that allows me to show up authentically. so for you, you're like, that's just kind of one person at a time. Nurture that relationship. If it doesn't work, I move on to the next person. and I think really that's a lost art is to say, I'm just going to meet the person and not have to do this kind of sales funnel thing where it's I've got 50 potential clients and, we'll work our way through the funnel. That's exhausting. That's exhausting. And that really doesn't honor who you are or who they are in the process.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Right. I feel like it's just running cattle through the mill, like just, Oh, one, okay, well that didn't work. Next person, you know, instead of viewing each person as a human being, it's like we've, I feel like dating apps have taken the humanness out of people and turned us into like marketing schemes, you know? And it's just. It's challenging. And it also sucks to be on that other side of it, too. I've had guys who I would be dating who would just totally dump me for another girl. And I'm just like, ouch. Okay. Yeah, this is, it's not, it hurts really bad.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:Yeah. Well, because you're a person, right? and so I think what's happening is people are getting a little more callous in the process and they're getting cynical and we're not our best self when we're cynical, right? And so what's happening is just, like you said, we're just burning through people all the time. And that's not relational. And so it's almost like, well, you know, if you want a date, you can't be relational. You have to be protective. Yeah. But then somewhere you're supposed to switch to being relational. I think so many people are struggling with, well, when do I switch? What does that look like? Is that a converse, you know, do we have a conversation about, well, now I'm just going to be myself. How does that work? And so quite literally, like, as you said, the best way to start is just be yourself it'll work or it won't.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Mm hmm. Yeah. What do you think about, how healthy relationships actually work versus what the research shows or what is portrayed online? What's the difference,
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:No, there's no difference. Everything online is a hundred percent accurate
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:all of it, everything I've seen.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:I'm being sarcastic again. I mean, I think here's the thing. We, what we're doing is we're trying really hard to educate people about what it should look like. And that, that in my mind is a beautiful thing. I love that we're trying to do that. How it's misused is we have a lot of people who've never actually seen a healthy relationship. And so they're looking at these idealized versions. And they're like, Oh, well, And and they're trying to recreate that because that's what we do, right? We we see something we try to recreate it The challenge is a healthy relationship actually looks a little bit different And there is research to support it But really in my experience working with so many different couples is it is it really comes down to willingness? You know, are you willing to be better? Are you willing to do the work? Are you willing to stay invested in the relationship? And quite frankly, it's as simple as that If you have two people and one of them is unwilling it's not going to work You And, and if you have two people in there and they're both willing, you're going to have pretty good odds. you may get to a place where you say, ultimately, we're just not aligned and it's not going to work for us, but even that will end well. And so I think, you know, we can make it really complicated and that sells books and it sells marketing and all that stuff, but really at the heart of it, it's just like, are you willing to be in that relationship and pursue better? And if you find someone else who is, the chances are you've got a good thing going.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:yes, I love that so much. There's, have you heard of Matthew Hussey?
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:Yeah.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:I just like worship the ground that guy walks on. I did his retreat last summer and it was incredible. But one of the things that, I really loved about a talk that he gave once is the difference between settling for and settling on. Cause people are talking a lot about, well, I don't want to settle for X, Y, and Z Joe Bob, you know, because they have this red flag. And he was like, it's, it's about settling on somebody like what you just said, who's willing to put in the effort because you can't build a house by yourself. you can't have somebody just sitting in a lawn chair, scrolling through their phone while you're building a house all alone, you need help and relationships are that. And, I totally agree with you that I think relationships, like we are more compatible with, or we're compatible with more people than we realize and more things can work, you know? And so like when I work with clients who are dating, that's something I encounter a lot where they're like, well, I don't know. I mean, she, he got mad about X, Y, and Z. And is that a red flag? And I'm like, maybe, but you have them too. Like in, you know, like we all have them and. Is it worth it? Are you willing to play the long game and have resilience and learn new relationship skills? it's really just about your fundamentals aligning. what are your core values? Where are you going in life? Versus, does this person, I don't know, I'm trying to think of a common red flag, have a fish in their picture on their app? okay, so they go fishing and, you know,
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:Everybody knows that's a red flag. I mean, obviously it's a personality problem.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Yeah. Your character is flawed.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:Yeah, it's true. And the thing is, is that what we have to be honest with ourselves about is that any relationship we're in. Even if it's our person, there are going to be seasons in that relationship where all we're going to have is a good enough relationship. For instance, if you are in a relationship with someone and you have children, while that person is pregnant or, when your kids are really little, like you are not going to have the perfect relationship. I hate to tell you that. But you're gonna have a good enough relationship if you're aligned on what you're trying to do. if someone gets ill in a relationship or they lose their job. So we have to just be realistic and say, so much of this is just like a hopeful outcome, but what is reality? Well, reality is that at the end of the day, in the good times and the bad times, what we need most is someone pointed in the same direction willing to keep moving. That's it. because the environment will change, the situations will change, and we just want to know we can do it together.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:What are your thoughts on conflict?
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:It's going to happen. And it actually could strengthen your relationship if you let it. So I always tell my clients like this could make us better if we wanted it to. but a lot of us see it as, well, if there's conflict, and, and even now in dating, it's like, if there's conflict, that just means we need to replace the relationship. And the problem is you're going to continue to have conflict with people. So we can't replace that forever. But I think what a lot of people don't know how to do well is to actually work through it and then let it go.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:mm
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:hard part. I hear a lot of people say I know how to, like work through conflict. I'm like, cool. Have you let it go? And they're like, nope. Like, well then we actually haven't worked through it. Right. We just build up all this residue and then eventually it blows up.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:mm mm.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:I think what you want to do is you want to learn how to do conflict well when it's little so you can do it really well when it's big.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Yeah, that's huge. Do you have resources for people listening that they can go to, to find out, like, how to go through conflict well? How to let go of things? Cause I think that's a skill that our, a lot of parents never taught, right? Parents either, Yelled and fought in front of their kids, or they hid conflict from their kids, so they didn't actually get a walkthrough play by play. I've had one client whose parents like did the amazing job of walking them through their conflict with their kids without oversharing. It was beautiful. but, just the one
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:Yeah, it's very unusual. I mean, I love that there was at least one, but to your point, it's usually, Hey, we're going to fight, we'll go fight in our bedroom with the door closed or, or we'll be really messy and fight in front of the kids and then never work it out. But there's not usually that like kind of start to finish. So here's what I tell you. I do have resources about it, but what I think, I would probably try to teach people just in this moment is a very simple structure that I use for conflict and it's this. In one sentence, what is the problem? Okay. And if you can't make it into one sentence, it's too long. So in one sentence, what is the problem? what do you want and what do you need? Okay. The want is in an ideal world, I would get this right. So you might say, the problem is you, you did not unload the dishwasher and I'm really frustrated. Okay. what do I want? I want you to unload the dishwasher all the time forever and us to never have this conversation again. Okay, well, that's ideal, right? what do I need? So the need is, what do I actually need to move past this? So if I don't get what I want, what do I need? And I might say, well, what I need is for you to understand that I'm really frustrated when that happens, and what I tell myself is that you're not even trying. And so I need you to understand that's how I feel. Okay, and so then I approach conflict with, well, here's the problem. Hopefully we both agree on the problem. If we don't, we gotta start there. What do I want and what do I need? And the other person goes, okay, great. I can do that. Or I can't. Here's what I want to need. And it just makes it a very simple framework to actually work it out.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:How do people determine the difference between want and needs?
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:That's a great question. Most people think want and need are the same thing. And that's actually called a demand. And if we're
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:ah,
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:over the place, we're never going to resolve conflict. Right? So if you say, well, my want and my need are the same thing, then we're really not open to trying to work it out. We're just more saying you need to meet my demand. And quite frankly, there will be times in a conflict where maybe there is a demand, right? If it's around infidelity or something, like definitely want and need are the same, right? You don't say, well, my want would be you'd stop doing it, but my need is, no, they're the same. Like you have to stop doing that. So it can be the same sometimes, but a lot of times it can be different. And so that's, I think the part that we're missing sometimes in relationships is just that understanding that we're not always going to get what we want. Relationships are messy. It's hard. They're not going to get what they want all the time either. But at the minimum, we should get what we need.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Yeah, I found that it's really difficult to identify those needs, on a core level as well and adding language behind it, because I think often we know what it feels like, like how we want to feel in our relationships, but adding that language behind it is so challenging. like what you said, loading the dishwasher, people will, the partner may be like, why are you so mad about loading the dishwasher? why that doesn't matter how I load the dishwasher when I load it or whatever, like at 50 years from now, who cares? But there's that underlying deeper issue and it's hard to get to, especially when you're in the moment and things are like hot, like everything's very, very hot. controversial or conflicting or whatever. so when it comes to getting deeper, how do you get deeper as a person and how do you help your partner? what if you have a partner who's not like very emotionally intelligent or you're not very emotionally intelligent? Like how do you dig deeper? Do you
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:that's a great opportunity for work. Yeah. So, so I think, you could work with a therapist to do that, but I think even just journaling can teach us a lot about ourselves. I think we're, you know, each of us, we're, we're wired high on feeling or high on thinking. and so what is sort of a funny, occurrence is that the people high on feeling tend to, get with people who are high on thinking and then we're just always fighting, right? Cause we're like, why don't you feel the way I do? And they're like, cause I don't think like that. Why don't you think like I do? And they're like, I don't know because I feel this way. So I think we're all going to have that struggle on one side or the other. and really it's just when we identify where we struggle, we just get honest about that and we do some work around it. So if you're a person who says, Jason, I, I don't know what I feel. how can we practice, right? How can we, how can we do that? Just a very practical way is, you know, you could get the five minute journal and you can start journaling. Yeah. It takes five minutes a day, you could start there, you could talk to a therapist. If you're a person who says my feelings run my life, that's its own issue, right? So then how do we regulate that a little bit? How do we approach these conversations and conflict from a place that has a little more balance? and then we work together to meet each other in the middle. And the thing is, is again, no relationship is going to be perfect, so no one's going to be just like you. And that's actually a great thing because that'd be super boring. could you imagine the same part? Like, it'd be so boring. So it's gonna be different, and sometimes it'll be amazing, and other times it'll be annoying, and it's okay if you do it together.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I I often wonder, because, when I think about stuff like this, it's like, well, think about how you are with your friends, I feel like we, most people that I've encountered have way healthier friendships and can get through conflict so well in their friendships, and they can go about it without being like, well, you did this and it's all about you and, you know, like very like accusatory and criticizing. but there's something about those romantic relationships. that just hit us in a different spot and bring up a whole different side, of insecurities and demanding this and all of that stuff. And so I, I often kind of compare this with clients to like, well, look at your friendships and try to model what you're doing there with your current relationship. But I don't know what the difference is between romantic relationships and friendships that like make it so challenging.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:Well, I think they're a, they're really a replication of our relationship with our parents, right? I mean, if you think about attachment theory, and our relationship with our parents, if our parents do not take good care of us, we literally would die, right? So that relationship is really life or death. And so what we often do is we learn to project that our worth is really tied up in how well we do our most intimate relationship. And then we get into an intimate relationship and the stakes are so much higher, right? And it feels like if I don't do this well, it's life or death because that's been literally our experience is that if I don't navigate this primary relationship well, I could suffer, I could die. And so even though we have all the skills and abilities to do it everywhere else, we somehow come into it and it's like, well, now this is very complicated and different. It's like, well, no, it doesn't have to be. But the problem is how it feels is usually very different, right? It feels so much more intense. I, you know, I have a lot of friends and I'm, I'm okay if they're angry with me, like we can work through that. but boy, in my primary relationship, if we're having trouble, like that's everything.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:hmm.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:so I think for us, it's just to understand where that comes from and have some grace, but also just to remind ourselves, like we probably know how to do this. If we took a step back. And we didn't just focus on how we felt about it. We probably know what we need to do here.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Mm hmm. I love that. Trusting that like core self, like that wise mind that we have, you know, like there's, there is something in us that kind of knows. You know, one of the things that I learned as I was like healing my attachment style, and I was doing, Dr. Nicole LePera's book How to Do the Work, which freaking amazing book, by the way, I, what I learned is like in the middle of a jealous moment where I was like freaking out on someone I was dating, there was a part of me that knew I wasn't that upset. And that I actually trusted him.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:Hmm.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:And because of that, understanding and, discovering myself, and I did a lot of journaling and stuff during that time, I realized, Oh, I've been ignoring that part of myself that actually knows. Like, I
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:when you realize that you're just like, Oh, this is terrible. This is the worst part of doing the work. Cause you start to have those moments of just sort of recognition. You're like, Oh, I know what that is. I don't like that.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:dang it, I have, I have been covering this up this whole time! I've been, I have been the drama!
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:It's me.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:am the problem!
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:Yeah.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Yeah. It's so much fun, though, I think, discovering who you are. And for me, I found that it's helpful. The more I love myself, which I hate this answer, by the way, because I hate cliche things, but the more that I love myself, the more I have empathy for other people and more space. And I think that's why, cause I understand myself so well. So now when I go into romantic relationships, like my first go to is to get defensive anytime they do anything that could potentially hurt me. and then my second reaction now is to be like, okay, wait, I don't actually know their intentions. And so I'm going to ask more questions and find out if I'm wrong because I will jump to the worst conclusion. I'm very emotion driven, like I'm a four on the Enneagram. So if you know anything about the Enneagram, I am the most emotionally turbulent of all the types. Um, so yeah.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:by the way.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, um, I'm the individualist. I'm unique in all ways, and nobody's like me. Um,
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:I
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:but,
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:I believe that.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:but yeah, it's just, it's, it is so, It's so fun getting to build relationships with people, for me anyway, and learning that. But I think, yeah, like what we talked about earlier is in the dating world, it's become this battle where it's men against women. I mean, I see it all the time. There's TikToks with women and men making fun of each other and just, It's so incredibly sad to me that we're in this huge battle against each other instead of realizing that, relationships are probably the best thing in life, you know? The second is sushi, you know? And I just, I love it. So
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:You've got priorities. I understand. But, but I agree with you. And I mean, that is, that is really true. I think is that we, we really don't have anything without relationship. And you can have financial success. If you don't know how to do relationships, you're miserable. You know, you can, you can have All the things. But if you don't know how to navigate a relationship, and that could even just be friendship. So it doesn't because I think we put a lot of pressure to on, you have to have a romantic relationship to be okay. And it's like, maybe you're in a season where that's not really a thing for you. And that's okay, too. it doesn't have to look a certain way. But I think sometimes what happens is that, you know, a lot of people historically would get together in the early twenties. Right in our early 20s. We're pretty malleable. We can change and flex and become somebody new. And so we would do that together, right? And so we'd kind of say I'm naive and I don't really know anything and you're naive and you don't know anything and we'll just become something. Well, I think what happens is if that doesn't work that way for us, if our life goes differently and we find ourselves single later, we then begin to overthink it, right? And we begin to say, okay, well now I can't, I can't not know what I know. And so now how do I do this knowing All of these things. And it then becomes this very complicated thing. That's not relational at all, because really the hallmark of the relationship is like, we're doing it together wherever we're at, we're just meeting each other there. And so what I'm loving about what you're saying is just, I think you've really figured this out. I'm sure it's not perfect. And you're like, Jason, I don't know that I've figured it out, but I think you have the right focus. And that's really all we're trying to do is have the right focus and show up.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Yeah, I love what you said about like how as you get older you have these past experiences and stuff. And that kind of brings me to your book, which I have not read your book. So please forgive me. And that will happen. A hundred percent. Um, yeah. Yes. Work through it. Don't block me on anything yet, But you know, like that kind of brings me into your book called Get Past Your Past, where it is. It is hard to not take all of our past with us because our brain is designed to do that. that's how we survive is by, learning patterns and things. But what is your greatest tip? That, or some tips I guess on like, how do you get past those bad experiences that you've had in relationships to get to a healthy place?
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:Yeah. Well, I, I think for me, the first thing I would probably say is, so a lot of people I talk to, they, they go, I had a great past Jason. I, you know, my, my childhood, there was no trauma, there's no abuse. And so therefore doesn't apply to me. and I just go, Oh, okay, well that sounds great. but you still had a past. And so I think, I think the first realization is that whether you would characterize that as good or bad, it's still happened and it still taught you something. Right. And so when we think about our childhood, really, it's just a training ground for how to be an adult. And we will learn things, even in the best of families, we'll learn things that we definitely want to replicate and then things that we don't. And so what I talk to people about is if you don't know how you were trained to live, you're just going to replicate it. Because it's just what's easy, right? And so the book is really about when we look at our past, how do we really determine, do we want to replicate? What we came from, right? Do we want to react to what we came from and change it or replace it? Or do we want to refine it, right? So we might say, well that was close, but not quite what I wanted. But to do any of that work, you have to own what you learned. And so the book is really about, for better or for worse, whether it's traumatic or not, how do we own and make peace with what we learned and then use it to make us better,
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:I love that so much because that's probably the biggest part of life is we often go through it in autopilot, without realizing that we have these hidden things. And so if you haven't dove into your past, you are going to repeat those patterns because you just think that that's what's normal, you know, because it is normal for you.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:It is normal. and, if you're listening right now and you were to write down like the three biggest problems you have in your relationships, I promise you, those are connected to your past,
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Mm.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:I promise you that those are the big deals to you because you've experienced some version of that in the past that you're carrying with you today. And that's not to say that's your fault, but it's to say, we, we don't just start over every day, brand new, without any thought about the past. Like our brain literally says, this is how we do things that we replicate it. So if we don't know what we're replicating, it's, it's trouble. And then we live our whole life and we say at the end, like, Oh man, I wish I would have thought about that a little bit.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I think it's hard. It is hard to go to the past, but I also find that sometimes people don't want to go there and take ownership of their stuff. Like a lot of that, like external locus of control, like things are happening to me and my partner's a problem and all of that stuff, you know? And, cause it's hard to look internal, but. It's also like really beautiful because then you get to change things. You get to grow. I mean, I think we all do it in our careers. We do it in sports. We do it in everything that we're a part of, and, figuring out what areas we need to improve on is important.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:You know, I mean, so I think, I think sometimes what people get wrong is they go, well, if I talk about the past and I have to live there and I'm going to have to like somehow sit in therapy for a decade and no, you know, you don't write that. Like to me, what it is, is it sort of like, when you go to the graveyard, after someone initially passes away, you go there a lot, right? So you go there a lot because it's fresh, but over time you, you don't, right? You go there less and less, but you always know you could go back, right? And your relationship to that. Headstone and the person that had passed away changes, right? And if we do our healing and our work, it probably becomes healthier and more beautiful. And so when I talk to people about their past, I'm, I always tell them like, I don't want you to live in the graveyard. That's actually not the goal. That'd be kind of weird unless you're into that. And that's your own thing, but I don't want you to live in the graveyard. But I want you to be willing to visit. And if you're not willing to visit, that's a problem. Yeah.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:that analogy. That is so perfect because I think you're right. That is people's fear of like, if I go back there, I'm going to be stuck forever and I'm going to live haunted by everything in my past. I'm going to uncover things that are going to just haunt me forever and I'm going to be miserable. And it's like, maybe for a period when you start to uncover it. But then Like you said, as you go through the stages of grief and real actual grief, you know, you eventually get to acceptance and meaning making and that's what happens with yourself. That's an incredible analogy. I love that. Yeah.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:and they're like, Oh, I think we covered it. And I'm like, this is awesome. Like we should have cupcakes. Today's a great day. because they're just like, Oh, I think I got it. and I'll go back there if I need to, but I think it's okay. And so I, what I would want people to understand is like, that's what we're going for. And so even though we might have fear that we're just going to live there and never get out, that's actually not the point.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:I love it so much. one final question or yeah, I guess one final question I have for you is, related to men because, as a man, I think it's so important to like, hear your perspective on this inner journey because most of my client population is men. I work with like military and first responders and so there's a lot of you know, still stigma around diving into this stuff, you know. is there any advice you would have for any men listening as far as how to get into therapy without feeling weak or like there's something wrong with you, which I know is cliche, but it's still there.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:Well, it's true. And I think there are definitely even professions where, even some of the ones you're talking about where to, to go for therapy, you sort of have to justify that, right? They're like, Oh, okay. So what did you do or what's happening? Or it isn't seen as this thing of like, just actually being, enriching and helpful. So I think what I'd say to men, is what I say to a lot of my male clients is, you know, I'm going to help you be better and live happier, and that's it. And I think we all want that, and that might take you a little bit of time or a long time, but you get to decide. But if you could have that, why wouldn't you have that? And so if you know you have access to it, like, try it out. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But I think it's just the willingness to say, let's try to make it better. You know, and if you're willing to do that, like, you'll have a beautiful life. Like, it'll all kind of figure itself out. The other thing I tell people is, just so you know, like I'm a, I'm a, you know, khaki wearing therapist, right? I talk about my feelings all day. I love it. Let's break out the feelings wheel. Let's do, but I'm not, I'm not going to train men to be me. So the other part of this is like therapy is not going to make you a different person in the sense that you're not going to become a therapist. You're just going to become a different version of you. And so just holding on to that of like, it's not about trying to brainwash you into being a different person. It's just about you being better. That's all.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Ah. Yeah, that's so beautiful. I, I love that too, because I've heard that, they think that it will make them like, you know, more feminine or something like that. especially with populations I work with, like we, they value masculine energy, you know? And I'm like, you're already doing that same stuff in your job by constantly getting better. And this is the same thing. It's just now we're going to add a little bit more language to what's going on in your life that you didn't have before. You know, it's like.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:I'm going to help you with this thing that you maybe aren't inherently good at because none of us are.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Mm hmm.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:and if anything, that'll probably just make you better at your job. You know, I, I work with Navy SEALs. I work with, Some really tough guys, and they're just better emotionally. That doesn't, that doesn't change. They're not like why I had to quit my job because Jason taught me about feelings. That doesn't happen. but they might have a healthier marriage. And so I think it's just understanding that like you get to decide what you do with it.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:hmm. I love that. yeah. Very cool. Well, all right. we're almost out of time, but I wanted to give you some space to talk about some of the stuff that you're doing, maybe tell everybody about your book, like where they can follow you on Instagram, anything else you have going on if they want to learn more about you.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:Yeah, well, I can do that. so yeah, I've got a book, Get Past Your Past. You can find it on Amazon, Target, Barnes Noble, all the big sites. and then if you love my voice and you think to yourself, man, I'd love to hear Jason every day for free, you could follow me on Instagram. It's@jason.vanruler. and then my website is jasonvr.com, and I do speaking and retreats and stuff all over the world. So you can follow me there too.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Awesome. Thank you so much. I'm so glad to have you on here. This was really, really helpful.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:This was so good. I'm, I'm grateful for the opportunity and also just for me, I'm impressed. I'm impressed with your approach to, dating and just seeing it for what it is and probably being different than what everybody else is doing, but better. Right. In the sense that you're like, I'm just going to show up authentic. Like I'll remember that for a long time. That was impactful.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Wow. Thank you. That's so flattering. I appreciate it. It took me a lot of trial and error to get there. but it's working. It's working so far. So Yeah. I, I'm feeling better about things. I'm able to let go of relationships more. I have this just real quick. I just have this like this. statement that I say to myself whenever I start dating somebody new, is go all in and then go all out if it doesn't work, because I've been one of those people that, you know, with my anxious attachment, my old anxious attachment, I would just hover with people and stay in situationships way too long. I can change him. You know, the Beauty and the Beast mentality. but now I'm like, no, I'm going to go all the way in. And if it doesn't work, which it usually, within the first few weeks, it won't, if it's not compatible, then I can go all out emotionally. It's really weird how it just made it, like, easier for me. I don't know how.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:Right? It's simple. And you, I think when you're, when you get to that point of it's not working, you just know completely it's not working. Right? There's not a lot of question marks around it. It's just like, it's obvious. Okay. I'm all in or I'm all, and that I think is good life advice anyway. Relationship or not.
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Yeah. Yeah. Might as well take risks. I mean, why not? We only, you know, YOLO. Which nobody says anymore. I'm like, what hap
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:said it though. That's
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:What happens to those YOLO people? We don't know where they went, but.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:No regrets. They never have regrets. That's what
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:No regerts. Yeah. Cool. Well, thank you so much for being on here. I really appreciate it.
squadcaster-iaj1_1_05-17-2024_101349:Yeah, this was fantastic. and I tagged me do all the things I'd love to love to help promote it. So
katrina-austin_1_05-17-2024_091349:Okay, cool. Yeah, and everybody that's listening, just, check for the links below. I'll have everything to all of his stuff. so you guys can check him out and you should definitely follow his page. He has some great content. I'm a huge, huge fan. I've been following him for a while, Alright, thank you guys for listening.
Thank you guys so much for joining me today. As a reminder, Jason and I are therapists, but we are not your therapist. So this is not a substitute for therapeutic advice. If you are looking for a therapist in your area, check out the links below. And thank you guys so much for listening as always. I really, really appreciate every subscribe and every download. Um, also check me out on social media@thetherapyalchemist. You can also check out Jason online as well@jason.vanruler talk to you soon.
